The Quiet One
JoinedPosts by The Quiet One
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163
The Trinity
by The Quiet One ini have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.
what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?
i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?
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163
The Trinity
by The Quiet One ini have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.
what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?
i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?
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The Quiet One
Bob- I can see why some believe Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, it would make understanding Revelation a lot more simple. After a fair amount of internet research, the best argument against this belief that I could find was that Jesus was the first to be resurrected to heavenly immortality and the last to be resurrected directly by Jehovah, and that was from Jw's! It seems clear to me that this belief cannot be proven directly from scripture without someone adding their own interpretation to it. I'm actually starting to believe that the Bible may be a contradictory and uninspired mess, so much so that people have had to invent the Trinity doctrine to try to make any sense of it. I mean no disrespect to your beliefs, though. I have one more point to make, if I may. You never even attempted to refute the reasoning in that personnification article I referred to earlier, you merely attacked the source by calling him a false prophet. This reminds me of the WTBTS.. *edit*- In case anyone has got the wrong impression, I'm not a follower of the 'false prophet' on the site I linked to, nor do I support any of those beliefs personally. I'm an agnostic looking for information on the Bible and other peoples beliefs. I merely found that the page I linked to made sense to me, I don't judge reasoning based on the source, but on its own merit.
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163
The Trinity
by The Quiet One ini have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.
what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?
i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?
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163
The Trinity
by The Quiet One ini have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.
what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?
i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?
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The Quiet One
Bob- Where do they call Jesus a false prophet? http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/1125/Was-Jesus-Dead.htm "We read: " Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" ( I Corinthians 15:3 ). "Christ" means "Anointed," or "Messiah," and while the name "Jesus" may be used to denote the human man, the title "Christ" certainly refers to the Divine One - the one who was GOD with us. This Scripture says He died, and was buried - and it was He - the CHRIST - the Divine One - who ROSE FROM THE DEAD. He did not rise from life or a living state, but from the DEATH! "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that He might be Lord both of the dead and living" ( Romans 4:9 ). When He rose, He was revived. When a boxer is knocked unconscious, the attendants work over him torevive him. The expression "He was revived" indicates Christ had been unconscious - not that He rose from a state of conscious mental activity. "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly . . . while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" ( Romans 5:6 ,8). God in the Flesh The test of a spirit - that is , angel or demon - is this: "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God" ( I John 4:2 ). But does this mean that Jesus was God inside of a body of flesh? Could this mean that it was merely the body Christ was dwelling in that died, while Christ Himself, being God, did not die, but left the body and remained alive, conscious, active, during the three days and three nights in the tomb? Notice again: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" ( John 1:1 ). The Greek word is " Logos ." It means"Word," or "Spokesman." This is referring to the One who co-existed with the Father from eternity - who always existed - who is one with the Father, yet, as He Himself said, His Father is greater then He." Even the statement of beliefs on the site states that Jesus is God the Son, and the Messiah. Perhaps you should read sources more carefully before dismissing them. Even IF they HAD called Jesus a false prophet, the reasoning used on the personnification page seemed logical to me. Even non-trinitarians can be worth listening to, information and/or reasoning doesn't need to be judged based on whether the person agrees with you or not. Maybe you could try to at least look at another viewpoint with an open mind?
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Question about Disfellowshiped Relatives - Elders Manual
by Quarterback ini know it was discussed in a previous post, but can't remember where.
what was said about the treatment of a relative associating with a df'd relative?.
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243
Victoria, Australia: Steven Unthank's Press Release: JW's Hierarchy Formally Charged Today With Child Abuse
by AndersonsInfo injehovah's witnesses hierarchy charged.
immediate press release: 26 july 2011. link to this press release: http://wp.me/p1g1hc-4o.
worldwide church hierarchy charged with child abuse.
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The Quiet One
http://christianwitnesses.com/id379.html "CORRECTION REGARDING WATCHTOWER IN AUSTRALIA Steven Unthank himself says he is not filing a $350 fee as needed in order to prosecute the Watchtower Society over its not complying with Australia's Working With Children law on doing background checks for if he does so he would have to assume all obligations including financially. However this does not necessarily end the matter for Australia's police or government can still push forward. Watchtower insists it does not normally work with children and does what it has to under law. Australia's government has communicated with Watchtower's branch about this; Steven has sent letters to the world headquarters in Brooklyn whose legal department and the Governing Body members have ignored them but by his doing so it has put them on clear notice."
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163
The Trinity
by The Quiet One ini have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.
what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?
i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?
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The Quiet One
Thanks for the replies so far. Just to point out, though, neither bob or isidore seem to have answered me as to why the Holy Spirit isn't mentioned in heavenly visions of the Father and the Son . Isn't it supposed to be equal to them in some way?
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163
The Trinity
by The Quiet One ini have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.
what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?
i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?
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The Quiet One
Isidore- http://www.cogwriter.com/holyspirit.htm "And the Cathecism of the Catholic Church admits: 245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was announced by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381) (Catechism of the Catholic Church. Imprimatur Potest +Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Doubleday, NY 1995, p. 72). Perhaps it should be pointed out that the apostles had all been dead for hundreds of years before the position was agreed upon in 381 A.D. Dr. Ray Pritz correctly observed: The doctrine of the Holy Spirit was the slowest to develop in the doctrine of the trinity by the Church catholic (Pritz R. NazareneJewish Christianity. Magn as , Jerusalem, 1988, p.90). Which, of course, shows that the Catholic "sacred tradition" on that did not come from the Bible nor the original apostles."
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WTS Controlling Tactics Similar to Phillip Garrido's on Jaycee Dugard ........
by flipper in........ and of course, that should come as no big surprise considering phillip and nancy garrido were jehovah's witnesses either before, or quite possibly at the time they abducted & kidnapped jaycee and stole her life away for 18 years.
i will share some excerpts from jaycee dugard's new book " a stolen life " and see if you also identify similar mind control tactics garrido used on jaycee that the wt society uses on 7 million members.. notice this quote from jaycee about schools and education , " i, however, have mixed feelings about high school.
on the one hand, for eighteen years i had been taught ( by garrido ) that schools are bad and kids learn bad things there and peer pressure can ruin a child's life forever ; but when i consider who i heard all this stuff from, a kidnapper, rapist, pedophile, narcissistic, pervert, i can only come to one conclusion.
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The Quiet One
This post reminded me of something from years ago.. During a talk, the speaker read out this (as far as we knew) true experience: A young man decided one day to tell his parents that he didn't want to go to the meetings anymore, threw out his 'truth' books, packed up and left home. A short time passed (can't remember, I think the speaker said a few days after he left), and the young man went into a pub/bar and got talking to a girl. Next thing he knows, her jealous boyfriend comes up and stabs him. He died, and this was used as an example of the kind of world it is 'out there' and how youngsters should stay safe in the organisation. Me and most of the congregation were sat there stunned and silent. That terrified me as a youngster, and this post just brought that fear back for a minute. The impression that such experiences can have is hard to explain..
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163
The Trinity
by The Quiet One ini have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment.
what scriptural basis is there for believing in the trinity?
i can understand some having the view that jesus/jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that jesus should be, but where in the bible is the holy spirit worshipped?
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The Quiet One
Bob+isidore- http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/3562/Personification.htm "But why did Peter make it seem as if the Spirit had personality? Because as the means, the power, the vehicle, the agency, by which the Father and the Son accomplish their will (for example, creating— Genesis 1:2 ),the Spirit takes on properties that they have. We do this in our own speech and writing: Money talks. Power corrupts. Words bite. To describe actions of things, we often use verbs that more accurately describe humanactions. Wind moans or shrieks. Fire licks wood. Rain dances. Water runs. These words do not make the things human. In Romans 5-7, Paul personifies death, law, and sin . "Death reigned from Adam to Moses " ( Romans 5:14 ). "The law has dominion" (7:1). "Sin . . . deceived me, and by it killed me"(7:11). We know that none of these things has personality, andwe think nothing more of it. The same applies to the Spirit of God.Just because we use verbs that normally describe the actions of a person does not mean that thesubject is a person. It is a non-argument; it means nothing. More important is how the entirety of the Bible treats the concept of God's Spirit . Using one verse like Acts 5:3 to "prove"a doctrine is called "proof texting." This method violates two of the paramount points of biblical understanding: 1) Always use clear verses to explain unclear verses , and 2) gather all of the pertinent verses from the whole Bible and study them completely before reaching a conclusion on a doctrine ."